Curse

Miral · Aug 04, 2007, 07:33 AM // 07:33

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Originally Posted by Bowstring Badass

moron

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bowstring Badass

doesn't think its not overpowered.

so taking into account the double negative, you're talking about the guy that thinks it is overpowered, right? because none of the skills used seem to be really overpowered as is, its just how people use things that makes them seem that way.

for those that constantly bring on nerfs, why not try coming up with your own strategies once in a while instead of bitching that everything anyone comes up with is overpowered?

there can be just as much balance if everyone is more powerful as there can be with all the lame nerf-herding. don't beg for nerfs to stuff you don't use; instead ask for buffs for things you feel are too weak.

trobinson97 · Aug 04, 2007, 08:25 AM // 08:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miral

so taking into account the double negative, you're talking about the guy that thinks it is overpowered, right? because none of the skills used seem to be really overpowered as is, its just how people use things that makes them seem that way.

for those that constantly bring on nerfs, why not try coming up with your own strategies once in a while instead of bitching that everything anyone comes up with is overpowered?

there can be just as much balance if everyone is more powerful as there can be with all the lame nerf-herding. don't beg for nerfs to stuff you don't use; instead ask for buffs for things you feel are too weak.

Breaking news, intelligent life found on Guru!

More at 11.

Thank you sir/ma'am.

Xenex Xclame · Aug 04, 2007, 08:44 AM // 08:44

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Originally Posted by Bowstring Badass

It would just be the same as me going lf 4 guests to come GvG.

No cause your 4 guest wont be able to play the builds the heroes are playing as good as the heroes do.

iriyabran · Aug 04, 2007, 08:57 AM // 08:57

u don't need to pay invites for heroes lol

gasmaskman · Aug 04, 2007, 09:44 AM // 09:44

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Originally Posted by Hole Sale Traps

Some People cant use vent so they get stuck with the sloppy groups, that's why I've had 24 fame for 5 months now.

Care to tell us why?

You have Guild Wars, so you obviously have some kind of connection to support it (meaning you can DL vent).

Not having a mic isn't exactly the biggest problem, it's just a tad painful.

Your computer not being able to install it isn't our problem, maybe you have a virus or something else?

Miral · Aug 04, 2007, 10:18 AM // 10:18

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Originally Posted by gasmaskman

Care to tell us why?

You have Guild Wars, so you obviously have some kind of connection to support it (meaning you can DL vent).

Not having a mic isn't exactly the biggest problem, it's just a tad painful.

Your computer not being able to install it isn't our problem, maybe you have a virus or something else?

how about being deaf? that a good enough excuse for ya?

Tiny Killer · Aug 04, 2007, 11:15 AM // 11:15

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Originally Posted by Miral

how about being deaf? that a good enough excuse for ya?

No doubt many of the little non-think elites here will fail to understand the relevancy.

Engel the Fallen · Aug 04, 2007, 12:36 PM // 12:36

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Originally Posted by Miral

how about being deaf? that a good enough excuse for ya?

Sorry that is unacceptable. You will just have to learn to hear or ask ANET to nerf deafness.

Did you put in a request on deafness being overpowered on the official wiki?

Just playing with ya, in case you could not tell.

Squinty · Aug 04, 2007, 01:03 PM // 13:03

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Originally Posted by unienaule

Yes, because sins, eles and rangers are all pro at healing and defense too. Oh wait... they're not, and aren't generally used in ridiculous HA spikes either...

Rangers not used in spikes ?? Go observer mode next time Team Voyager are holding Halls with their Ranger Spike !!! (or did you miss that one?)

And if Rits attack damage needs nerfing why not just nerf all attack skills so no one can possibly spike and then we can all run around kiting each other for hours in HA, shouting I'm great I play balanced build.

Yea right......

undeadgun · Aug 04, 2007, 02:03 PM // 14:03

Ranger spike>rit spike>hero way>Ranger spike
decent balanced >all ^ ^
nuff said

Bane of Worlds · Aug 04, 2007, 07:16 PM // 19:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by gasmaskman

Care to tell us why?

You have Guild Wars, so you obviously have some kind of connection to support it (meaning you can DL vent).

Not having a mic isn't exactly the biggest problem, it's just a tad painful.

Your computer not being able to install it isn't our problem, maybe you have a virus or something else?

There are a few reasons like being deaf, dial-up connection like speed(& no one wants to lower sound quality for one or a few players), or the inability to install because they lack admin rights on the computer?

around · Aug 04, 2007, 07:57 PM // 19:57

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there can be just as much balance if everyone is more powerful as there can be with all the lame nerf-herding. don't beg for nerfs to stuff you don't use; instead ask for buffs for things you feel are too weak.

Do you know what power creep is?

Lorekeeper · Aug 04, 2007, 08:12 PM // 20:12

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Originally Posted by spawnofebil

Do you know what power creep is?

No, where can i cap it? Is it a mesmer skill like power leak?

Muspellsheimr · Aug 04, 2007, 08:38 PM // 20:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miral

there can be just as much balance if everyone is more powerful as there can be with all the lame nerf-herding. don't beg for nerfs to stuff you don't use; instead ask for buffs for things you feel are too weak.

Actually, proper balancing isn't quite as simple as making everything the same level - if the skills are to powerful, regardless if they are in line with other skills, means the game becomes based off reaction time more than anything else. This can be related to a large-scale nuclear war - It's no longer about tactics, but who's warheads go off first.

The reverse is also true - even balanced against each other, if the skills are to weak, the game is ruined. Relate it to trying to fight a war when everyone is using their fists.

Miral · Aug 04, 2007, 09:04 PM // 21:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muspellsheimr

Actually, proper balancing isn't quite as simple as making everything the same level - if the skills are to powerful, regardless if they are in line with other skills, means the game becomes based off reaction time more than anything else. This can be related to a large-scale nuclear war - It's no longer about tactics, but who's warheads go off first.

The reverse is also true - even balanced against each other, if the skills are to weak, the game is ruined. Relate it to trying to fight a war when everyone is using their fists.

yes that is true. problem of course being that people are dragging it further and further down the tube of super weak everything.

As I said, none of the Rt spike skills are overpowered on their own. They're actually quite a nice balance. If anything is going to be done about it, it should be a mechanic change within the arena. like, maybe no more than x amount of spirits can exist in a single arena... OR, buff up some of the skills that would be useful against a Rt spike build. Spiritual Pain comes to mind.

And since I just know someone is going to say it, a response and reply:
Q. But why should I take skills to counter a build that I only have a small chance of coming up against?
A. Besides the obvious fact that thats the whole reason counter skills are there is to counter things... If you only have a small chance of going up against it, then its not really worth nerfing whole skills just to stop one rare build in one form of play, now is it?

On another note: can you at anet cancel ATS yet? worst thing to happen to this game :\ the PvPers bitch about abuse in it, the PvEers bitch about nerfs that come from it, the only people that seem to like it are those who abuse it.

Dr Strangelove · Aug 04, 2007, 09:49 PM // 21:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miral

so taking into account the double negative, you're talking about the guy that thinks it is overpowered, right? because none of the skills used seem to be really overpowered as is, its just how people use things that makes them seem that way.

for those that constantly bring on nerfs, why not try coming up with your own strategies once in a while instead of bitching that everything anyone comes up with is overpowered?

there can be just as much balance if everyone is more powerful as there can be with all the lame nerf-herding. don't beg for nerfs to stuff you don't use; instead ask for buffs for things you feel are too weak.

This whole "no nerfs only buffs" idea I've been seeing lately is really, really stupid.

Some skills are overpowered. This is a fact, some things are better for killing/keeping people alive than other skills. I don't think there's ever going to be a situation where some stuff isn't better than other stuff.

Now, if we buff every other skill, what's called "power creep" happens. This means that people can kill things faster, or make things nearly invulnerable. The game becomes much faster paced, as each individual skill can make or break a game. For example, let's say power attack is buffed to do 1000 damage. To compensate for this being overpowered, reversal of fortune is buffed to negate 1000 damage. The result is that games are won and lost in very short time frames, which really isn't very fun for most people. In fact, it's kinda brainless.

By nerfing overpowered skills, you bring them back down to a similar level of effectiveness as everything else. The overall power level in the game is about the same, and nothing is broken.

Now, Guild Wars has had issues with power creep when new chapters come out. The game is far faster paced than it used to be. If you don't believe me, run through Elona and Tyria, preferably with skills from only those campaigns. You'll notice a huge difference in the pacing of the game.

Now, most players would prefer a game with relatively slow pacing. This leaves room for tactics, complex skill combos, and countering things. That's why people want nerfs on overpowered stuff. Quit trying to ruin the game for everyone else because you want everything to be 1-hit instagibbed in PvE, that's just not fun.

Miral · Aug 04, 2007, 10:08 PM // 22:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

This whole "no nerfs only buffs" idea I've been seeing lately is really, really stupid.

Some skills are overpowered. This is a fact, some things are better for killing/keeping people alive than other skills. I don't think there's ever going to be a situation where some stuff isn't better than other stuff.

Now, if we buff every other skill, what's called "power creep" happens. This means that people can kill things faster, or make things nearly invulnerable. The game becomes much faster paced, as each individual skill can make or break a game. For example, let's say power attack is buffed to do 1000 damage. To compensate for this being overpowered, reversal of fortune is buffed to negate 1000 damage. The result is that games are won and lost in very short time frames, which really isn't very fun for most people. In fact, it's kinda brainless.

By nerfing overpowered skills, you bring them back down to a similar level of effectiveness as everything else. The overall power level in the game is about the same, and nothing is broken.

Now, Guild Wars has had issues with power creep when new chapters come out. The game is far faster paced than it used to be. If you don't believe me, run through Elona and Tyria, preferably with skills from only those campaigns. You'll notice a huge difference in the pacing of the game.

Now, most players would prefer a game with relatively slow pacing. This leaves room for tactics, complex skill combos, and countering things. That's why people want nerfs on overpowered stuff. Quit trying to ruin the game for everyone else because you want everything to be 1-hit instagibbed in PvE, that's just not fun.

As I've pointed out, the skills themselves are NOT overpowered, it is how they are being used that might be powerful. but its not overpowered either! slap some prot magic on and ZOMG THE SPIKE DID NOTHING! kill off their spirits with spiritual pain and ZOMG THE SPIKE DID HALF OF WHAT IT NORMALLY DOES!

Balance doesn't have to be about all numbers. buff doesn't have to mean it does 1000 damage. "Some mesmer interupts can now interupt chants" remember that update? A buff to mesmers to combat a paragon team build. THAT is acceptable balance. just give a class a way to strip weapon spells in PvP, or give rangers a spirit that keeps other spirits from being summoned in the area, or give a class a skill that does something like "if attacker is under the effects of a weapon spell, all damage against target is reduced by x.....y.

or, change the rules of combat in the battle areas themselves. either with environment effects, or hard caps on what can be done within the arena.

don't nerf what isn't overpowered because of its potential in certain situations. It is perfect as is outside of that specific build.

Hyper Cutter · Aug 05, 2007, 12:03 AM // 00:03

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Originally Posted by Miral

Spiritual Pain comes to mind.

Which was nerfed because it was being used to spike and people complained, iirc...

Miral · Aug 05, 2007, 12:24 AM // 00:24

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Originally Posted by Hyper Cutter

Which was nerfed because it was being used to spike and people complained, iirc...

yeah funny how everything that people use tactically ends up getting nerfed isn't it? oh wait did I say funny? I meant sad. very very sad and pathetic.

Dr Strangelove · Aug 05, 2007, 01:15 AM // 01:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miral

As I've pointed out, the skills themselves are NOT overpowered, it is how they are being used that might be powerful. but its not overpowered either! slap some prot magic on and ZOMG THE SPIKE DID NOTHING! kill off their spirits with spiritual pain and ZOMG THE SPIKE DID HALF OF WHAT IT NORMALLY DOES!

Well, gee, I guess you got me, a skill does have to be used for it to be overpowered. As for "just use prot magic", spiritual pain provided a way to compress a huge amount of damage into a very small timeframe. Eurospike, the prevailing abuser of spiritual pain, just galed your monks and killed someone in 3 seconds, while you sat on your butt.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miral

Balance doesn't have to be about all numbers. buff doesn't have to mean it does 1000 damage. "Some mesmer interupts can now interupt chants" remember that update? A buff to mesmers to combat a paragon team build. THAT is acceptable balance. just give a class a way to strip weapon spells in PvP, or give rangers a spirit that keeps other spirits from being summoned in the area, or give a class a skill that does something like "if attacker is under the effects of a weapon spell, all damage against target is reduced by x.....y.

No, that's called buildwars. It promotes a rock scissors paper mentality that really gets old. For instance, vocal minority makes you win effortlessly against paragay, without it you lose hopelessly. No skills, just luck of bringing a very specific counter. This is like saying a 1000 damage power attack is not overpowered because there's a 1000 point reversal of fortune that specifically prevents damage from power attack.

Yes, I am aware that skills exist that do things more complex than deal/prevent damage. The concept remains the same.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miral

It is perfect as is outside of that specific build.

And my theoretical power attack that does 1000 damage isn't overpowered if you never attack anyone with it. If all those gosh darned PvPers would stop playing to win, we wouldn't have this problem!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miral

yeah funny how everything that people use tactically ends up getting nerfed isn't it?

On the contrary, PvPers tend to push for nerfs on skills that AREN'T used tactically. Grenth's dervishes, for example, allowed you to mindlessly mash on buttons until a trained target died. This took away from the tactics of melee, people no longer had to change targets, spike things, interrupt monks, etc.